Mansour Kilibria 
Member since Aug 17, 2016


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Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

Mr Davidzon said: "The bottom line is that American police kill far more people than police in any other civilized nation. The use of force guidelines, according to Amnesty International, do not meet international norms and standards. Whats even worse is that while delivering this carnage, they are failing to reduce crime to rates on-par with other civilized nations."

That statement ignores the fact that, unlike any other country in the world, the USA has hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of millions of citizens. The threat level to police officers, and therefore the statistics on police killings -- justfied and unjustified -- cannot be compared with any other country.

Posted by Mansour Kilibria on 08/17/2016 at 10:45 AM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

I saw this remark posted on r/oakland in response to this article. Not my words but they do cast a useful perspective on the article.

From /r/oakland:
Let's examine the incidents & people cited in the EBE article.

[Yuvette Henderson] (

Police shot Ms. Henderson while she was aiming a loaded revolver at them, after she had attempted to *car jack 3 different cars.* Picture yourself as Ms. Henderson in this scene, whatever your age, race, or gender. How would you expect to be treated if you pointed a gun at a police officer? How else could this have played out? She could have dropped the weapon & surrendered.


[Richard Linyard] (

He was asphyxiated. When he trapped *himself* in a narrow space between buildings while trying to escape from police. "Linyard was the only person in the car and allegedly fled on foot and into a nearby yard. Officers waited for backup to arrive before searching the neighborhood, Watson said... ...There was *no active pursuit, no fight, no use of force,*” Watson said. “We were in the process of conducting a search when the officers located this individual.”

How else could this have played out? He could have sat there in his car, hands on the steering wheel, like average citizens do, instead of trying to run.


[Demouria Hogg]

Having a weapon in plain view inside a car and reaching for it when a police officer taps at the window is not a good idea for a person of *any* description or race. If the fellow was groggy from sleep or drugs, that is unfortunate but also not something the police officer can know or account for in the moment. When someone raises a weapon there is no time for a "hey how ya doin" check-in or a therapy session. How else could this have played out? He could have put his hands up and waited for instructions. With a weapon in plain view, even if he'd put his hands up he still may have gotten shot due to the officer's nerves & bad judgment but chances would have been lower.

[Alan Blueford]

Shot while fleeing from police. After being seen directly involved in drug dealing. The details of this incident aren't as clear as in the previous examples but the interpretation "officer felt his life was threatened" seems much better-supported by the evidence than "racist cop kills punk from spite/anger". The youth had a weapon on him and attempted to flee after the police asked him to submit to a search. Pulled out said weapon (i.e. brandishing) while being chased. How else could this have played out? Mr. Blueford could've sat down on the curb, been searched, arrested for illegal firearms possession, booked, and processed.


Without question, a certain number of suspect deaths at the hands of police are unjustified, and police depts. nationwide need to continue to revise & refine their use-of-force policies. But what articles like this EBE piece and thousands like it often ignore are the how the actions of the "victims" were instrumental in bringing about the killings. It's fair to put "victim" in quotes because the word connotes bad intention from one party toward another -- but so often when police blow somebody away, they are just doing their job because *the suspect or perp* raised the stakes to life-or-death by their own actions, forcing the police toward lethal self-defense or defense of the public at large.


The EBE's closing quote for the 3-page article:

"Alan Blueford's mother says *its incumbent on police to change.* [Emphasis mine.] "Sadly it's been in our culture for a very long time," Jeralynn said. "The outrage of today is that it's still going on. Decades of killings. ... That's not the way it should be.

"It's up to them to change that. It's too late for Alan."

Really? It's up to the *police* to do the changing? Changing to what, tolerating young men (or anyone) possessing and carrying illegal firearms? Tolerating them ignoring police orders to stop and be searched with (in the Blueford and the Linyard cases ) *obvious* probable cause? Allowing them to run while brandishing a firearm?

Posted by Mansour Kilibria on 08/17/2016 at 10:12 AM

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