Eden Green 
Member since Jul 21, 2015


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Recent Comments

Re: “Best Volunteer Animal Rescue Group

Ellen, no I am not committed to trying to deter you or other TNR practitioners. Given that you erroneously think that what you are doing is ‘balanced’ and that you ‘respect all life’ that would be a waste of my time.

But, as you can see, this is a public comment area underneath an article. I am presenting the realities of TNR for those who do not know about this practice or for those who are on the fence. Perhaps then others will investigate further and make an informed decision rather than just accept TNR at face value. You can read, comment, respond, or not do so. But, if I see something that warrants a response, I will respond.

You have absolutely no scientific/peer-reviewed proof that some ‘massive spay-neuter’ efforts have helped the ecosystem. That is patently false given that TNR does not reduce populations, well-fed cats continue to hunt, and felids are the definitive host for Toxoplasma gondii. Free-ranging cats, fixed or not, continue to be a leading cause of wildlife mortality through predation and disease transmission.

In fact, what you say is practically insulting to every scientist in related fields. So many TNR people act like they are ecologists. Ask ecologists what they think about TNR and free-ranging cats. They aren’t jumping for joy. The method is a scourge on the environment – right down to water quality.

You appear to be confused regarding the definition of euthanasia and why euthanasia is done. Euthanasia, by definition, is a good death. Euthanasia is done not only to end immediate suffering, but as a wildlife management tool and to manage shelter numbers. Killing is synonymous to violence. The deaths that these cats meet on the streets are often tragic. They are not typically dying of old age.


Like many TNR advocates, you did not respond by citing a paper to substantiate your claims, and you completely ignored the non-lethal suggestions I mentioned, probably because those methods actually require responsibility and oversight – not just re-dumping cats back to the streets and tossing food.

You view this as positive – others do not.

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Posted by Eden Green on 07/26/2015 at 8:25 PM

Re: “Best Volunteer Animal Rescue Group

Maggie, you mention feelings and beliefs and that is part of the problem. You do not seem to understand or appreciate the lack of scientific evidence for what you claim to be true. I am guessing you will not bother to consider these papers, but I will post them anyway. If TNR truly had a population impact, don’t you realize conservation groups would jump for joy? Fewer cats would mean less predation and less feces spreading Tg to wildlife, but that is NOT the result of TNR. Unless you fix a very high percentage of the cats within a geographical area (not a colony) EVERY year, you are wasting your time.

I would love to be a hindrance to TNR, but no Maggie, I am not. TNR is taking place thanks to huge funding sources like PetSmart Charities, Best Friends, HSUS, and others. All that money that could have been better spent.

Unless you took a census of those neighborhoods/zip codes before and after, you don’t know. Many TNR groups erroneously base ‘success’ on reduced intake at shelters and reduced rates of euthanasia. Neither is a sound indicator regarding population reduction. Of course there is less intake and euthanasia – the cats are being re-routed and re-dumped outside.




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Posted by Eden Green on 07/24/2015 at 10:46 PM

Re: “Best Volunteer Animal Rescue Group

Lizzard, what you describe seems to be colonies - not ‘the population of cats in Oakland’ and there is a difference.

There is a cost – our natural resources, folks needing PEP due to rabies exposure, damaged property.

Actually, there are people who will trap for removal. The problem is that no-kill efforts have been systematically taking away the rights of landowners to do so. Ear-tipped cats are put right back. Shelters won’t accept cats. Sometimes people are threatened or harassed or their traps are stolen or damaged. People have a right to have unwanted domestic animals removed from their properties. But, that is increasingly harder and harder to do if they are cats.

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Posted by Eden Green on 07/24/2015 at 10:26 PM

Re: “Best Volunteer Animal Rescue Group



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Posted by Eden Green on 07/24/2015 at 10:15 PM

Re: “Best Volunteer Animal Rescue Group

Two papers in the Journal Zoonoses and Public Health:



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Posted by Eden Green on 07/24/2015 at 10:14 PM

Re: “Best Volunteer Animal Rescue Group

Ellen, I did not say I represent the scientific community, but I base my views on science and substantiate what I say based on science. If ‘both sides’ can quote the studies, then by all means, please do so. Cite even one peer-reviewed paper in which TNR has reduced population growth within a municipality, county, or state. The point is – we shouldn’t be engaging and funding feel-good programs that actually come at the expense of public health. As much as environmental impact concerns me, this is first and foremost a public health issue. And, if you bother to read Roebling et al. 2013, the paper that has 5 authors from the CDC, you will learn that TNVR does not mitigate for rabies, but increases the risks. If you read Gerhold and Jessup, 2012 (both papers published in the Journal Zoonoses and Public Health), you will gain an understanding regarding the zoonotic disease ramifications of allowing cats to roam.

Nowhere did I say to hell regarding any other approach. TNR – definitely. But, not socialization, not containment or catios, and not TENVAC – which is a sanctuary set-up that has oversight and accountability (trap-evaluate-neuter-vaccinate-adopt-contain), so perhaps don’t put words in my mouth.

You are the pot calling the kettle black. My view is not myopic because I (unlike you) consider all aspects of this issue – not just the cats.

I didn’t say that the cats or the food is the reason at the colleges, but what I did describe happens in many, many places. Seriously, if you practice TNR, you darn well know that food attracts unwanted animals.

I don’t blame cats – I blame humans. Cats do what they do out of instinct.

I never said get rid of them all – my goodness – just how many times in one rant can you put words in my mouth? Spay-neuter all the owned pets you can, sure. But if you fix a feral, don’t re-dump outside. TNR is pretty much outdoor hoarding of cats. Areas are saturated.

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Posted by Eden Green on 07/24/2015 at 10:12 PM

Re: “Best Volunteer Animal Rescue Group

Ellen, interesting that you mentioned encouraging colleges not to trap and kill unwanted wildlife. What unfortunately happens is that cats and cat food attract native wild predators that are then trapped and destroyed. Bobcats, coyotes, and raccoons and other animals become habituated to humans, pose a risk, and then are removed and killed.

Science is not propaganda. Releasing cats that will continue to destroy native wildlife is not a way to support birds. Practicing something like TENVAC is.

Oh, I think this is very constructive because both sides of this issue are presented rather than just a feel-good story.

I do agree that humans are responsible for the decline in birds – they allow cats to roam, they dump unwanted cats, and they re-abandon them through TNR - all human actions that result in wildlife mortality. The fact is, cats are now the leading human-related cause of wildlife mortality – to the tune of billions of birds and mammals every year. Loss et al. 2013. That figure does not even include killed herpetofauna or mortality due to diseases spread from cats to wildlife like toxoplasmosis.

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Posted by Eden Green on 07/24/2015 at 1:10 PM

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