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      <title>Comments On: It All Comes Down to the Unions
    
      by Nate Seltenrich and Robert Gammon</title>
      <link>http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610</link>
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      by Nate Seltenrich and Robert Gammon</description>
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      <pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700</pubDate>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2783801]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[radorth]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[The hypocrisy of politicians has reached a new low. Stick it to the poor and close parks rather than irritate a union.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=2589673">radorth</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:13:37 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2779166]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Lawngun]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Of course, one thing to keep in mind is that two-tier wage and/or benefit structures, though popular over the last 20-30 years, cause lots of morale and labor issues down the line. "Second class" employees are always, understandably, less than happy with their situation.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1405361">Lawngun</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:07:25 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2779138]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Lawngun]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Bob, I was more generic in my comments, as we were discussing "public employees". You're right, CalPERS is a 900 lb.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1405361">Lawngun</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:03:23 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2778846]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Robert Gammon]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Big Foot,<br>
No doubt that the cost of housing is much higher in the cities we compared Oakland to, but we didn't find any evidence that the increased housing costs in the Bay Area warranted police compensation packages that are at least twice as high as in the other cities.<br>
<br>
Also, no one is suggesting that current OPD officers take massive pay cuts. Instead, the proposal is that new officers come in at signficantly lower salaries, so that eventually the city will be able to afford more cops.<br>
<br>
As it is, the city simply doesn't have enough money -- because of huge loss of tax revenues in the past few years -- to afford to bring the force back up to 750-800 officers, unless it can hire cops at lower salaries.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1141637">Robert Gammon</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:04:19 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2778843]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Robert Gammon]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Lawngun,<br>
Two things:<br>
1. I think it's unrealistic to expect that Oakland city unions would be able to suddenly exert influence over how CalPERS is run simply because they would have to pay more into their pensions.<br>
2.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1141637">Robert Gammon</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:57:41 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2778138]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[zinn21]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[What else is new? Every state, county and city worker is grossly overpaid in salary and benefits based on current revenue.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=2512174">Donald Sandri</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 06:31:04 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2777491]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[eastbay_jose]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[<br>
Lame journalism. Where are the details about these supposed "sweetheart deals"?
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1164118">eastbay_jose</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 22:17:40 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2777073]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Big Foot]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Your article talks about OPD costs being equal to other cities with the same crime problems. I dare say the cost of living in those cities is much lower than the Bay Area.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=2777068">Big Foot</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 22:07:52 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2773468]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[OaklandTom]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Regarding pensions, even contractual obligations are on the table if a government goes bankrupt. If employees pay into the pension system, they own part of it, and their equity must be considered in bankruptcy judgements.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=2773467">Thomas M. DeBoni</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 20:28:00 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2773414]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Lawngun]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Bob, believe there are a couple of points here. First, public employees would probably take a long hard look at their plan, if they had to pay, say, 20% of their salary into the plan.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1405361">Lawngun</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 18:12:23 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2773379]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Robert Gammon]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Max and lawngun,<br>
I agee that public employees should pay a greater share of their pensions, and a 50/50 split sounds much more fair than the status quo.<br>
<br>
But I don't get how a 50/50 split will help public workers become better stewards of their retirement plans. All current Oakland workers will receive pensions from CalPERS when they reach retirement, and so whether they pay zero or 50/50 it won't affect how much money they receive in the end.<br>
<br>
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1141637">Robert Gammon</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 16:58:18 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2773224]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Lawngun]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Max, think that was what I was trying to get across, only you said it more better.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1405361">Lawngun</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:33:57 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2773033]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Max Allstadt]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Lawngun,<br>
<br>
The reason to do a 50/50 split is precisely because it makes the pension plan a partnership. At 50/50, the employee has an equal stake in the plan being sustainable.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          Max Allstadt]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:46:12 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772960]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Lawngun]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Thanks for clarifying, Max. (I do think this issue has been somewhat confused in the press, EBE excepted, of course.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1405361">Lawngun</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:10:48 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772947]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Max Allstadt]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Lawngun,<br>
<br>
Charter amendments around pensions and contracts wouldn't be able to amend or alter existing contracts. <br>
<br>
What I think we can do by charter is ban the council from signing future contracts which do not include a certain level of pension contributions.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          Max Allstadt]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:50:19 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772946]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Lawngun]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[@Taxpayer, don't forget, that since 2002, civilian employees also received a 35% increase in their retirement benefit (2% to 2.7%). There was a comparison of Oakland salaries to other local entitites posted on the City's website.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1405361">Lawngun</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:27:27 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772945]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Taxpayer]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[First of all....The Tax ballot measure is only to support hiring more police officers, why would citizens vote for paying for more police? where is that helping the deficit?
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=2772944">Taxpayer</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:16:30 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772888]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Lawngun]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[It's still not clear to me (IANAL), to what extent retirement reform can be made by the ballot process. Generally, wages, hours and terms and conditions of employment are subject to bargaining.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1405361">Lawngun</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 12:28:12 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772661]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Max Allstadt]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Also, Bob<br>
<br>
Regarding Make Oakland Better Now:  <br>
<br>
First of all I don't speak for them regarding the youth program mandates. MOBN disagrees with me about eliminating OO.<br>
<br>
Second, we're a good governance group, we're not a special interest.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          Max Allstadt]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:09:23 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772624]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Max Allstadt]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Bob,<br>
<br>
I'm pushing for what's right and what will work, regardless of what the council is willing to do. <br>
<br>
The council is also unwilling to create and enforce real reform in the way this city does it's accounting and presents it's budget.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          Max Allstadt]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:55:41 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772617]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[yoyo_guru]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[What does "elimination of all grants and subsidies" in this part of the Fitch report mean? Does it mean they're assuming eliminating Measure Y "grants"?
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=2194554">yoyo_guru</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:30:30 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772605]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Robert Gammon]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Lawngun,<br>
Have to agree about the change Quan made on finance personnel, and I agree about Dellums mistake getting rid of some competent people. Also, if you read the Fitch ratings closely, it's clear that the downgrade was affected by the fact that employee unions have not yet agreed to adequate concessions.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1141637">Robert Gammon</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:13:44 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772571]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[yoyo_guru]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[@Lawngun, Are you saying the sky isn't falling yet?
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=2194554">yoyo_guru</a>]]>
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    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:05:03 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772569]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[oaktowncitizen]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I went to the libraries meeting to speak my mind about no parcel tax and the need for more police and was totally bullied and intimidated by the library crowd. It was awful!
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=2672960">oaktowncitizen</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:03:46 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: It All Comes Down to the Unions]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/it-all-comes-down-to-the-unions/Content?oid=2764610&show=comments#2772562]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Lawngun]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[The City's ratings were upgraded from single to double A about three to four years ago. In early 2009, Dellums made the City's former Budget Director his new Asst City Administrator, got rid of the City's Finance Director and a few of his managers and downgraded the then Budget Director.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/Profile?oid=1405361">Lawngun</a>]]>
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    <pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 09:59:49 -0700</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.eastbayexpress.com">East Bay Express</source>
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