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Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

I agree with you Bruce. I am upset that so many young people had to die for no reason other than neglect of safety concerns. I grew up in the Bay Area, but haven't lived there since 1975,before most of you were born.

I now live outside the USA for personal reasons, but a think this was a tragedy and not the first to occur at at a large gathering of young people looking for meaning in their lives and just trying to enjoy themselves. People are dying all over the world in wars and other causes, but it hurts me to think that a tragedy like this could happen in my beautiful Northern California.

I hope that some people will learn from this event to be more careful about where they are going to spend their time, even if only for an evening. My empathy is for the people who lost friends and lovers in this tragedy. I just hope that lessons have been taken by those who might benefit from them.
Ethel

Posted by Ethel Weintraub on 12/04/2016 at 2:14 AM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

Soen: the only problem with your narrative is, from the photos I've seen, the victims of the fire are white (save one possible Hispanic), the party promoters are white, the residents who turned the warehouse into a death trap are white, while the fire chief is black and the property owner is Asian. But keep blaming 'white supremacy'.

Posted by Angela Talbot on 12/04/2016 at 1:31 AM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

So sad. My condolences to the friends, family, and acquaintances of the victims.
There is no excuse --none-- for not having a sprinkler system, accessible exits, and an up-to-code stairway. High rents, marginalized status, or persecution do not excuse the failure to foresee a catastrophic fire.
This is a wake-up call not only to those in the underground scene but to all landlords, owners, and promoters that their first priority should be the physical safety of those who use the premises.
All persons in a position of responsibility must ensure the physical safety of potential users of the space. Not to do so is not just against the law but also an abdication of moral responsibility.
Users of unsafe spaces should refuse to enter structures where the basic preventative safeguards are not in place. They should also complain, loudly, when they encounter an unsafe space and report these spaces to the fire department and relevant agencies in order to prevent another calamity like this.
Moreover, the city, county, and fire department must step up their enforcement of structures which do not comport with the building codes. These codes have been enacted, after many similar deaths, in order to prevent the exact loss which occurred here.
Again, my condolences.

Posted by George Kaplan on 12/04/2016 at 1:18 AM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

"Sadly, some of the dozens of attendees who remain unaccounted for are transgender people and people-of-color."

Sadly, some of the dozens of attendees who remain unaccounted for are not straight and not white.

Yeah, because this needs to be said? Screw this politicized and devicive article.

Posted by AJ Walkes on 12/04/2016 at 12:06 AM

Re: “Oakland Warehouse Fire: 'It Was A Tinderbox. I Don't Recollect Anybody Coming Out.'

Unlike you, Garry, who apparently entered into this world as a crusty adult who elected to have his sense of tact surgically removed

Posted by Andrew Cone on 12/04/2016 at 12:04 AM
Posted by Bruce Ferrell on 12/04/2016 at 12:02 AM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

Folks, I really am sorry for your loss and I'm angry as hell about it. They didn't even "get" to die for a cause or reason. Just stupidity and greed.
So far as I know, none of my friends were there... Time will tell.

This was irresponsible and has been going on for some time. I've been in Oakland for over 20 years. Somehow the "community" has no responsibility for this stuff. I listen to the gun battles from my home. Every time shit get's real it's always "the man's" fault. Not the half-assed delusional people pulling half thought out stuff... Cuz' most of the time it works... Except when it doesn't.

I know what safe means and it doesn't mean illusions and unicorns. It means doing something real. It means dealing with the world as it is not what we wish it were. If it sucks, work on fixing that. Yes, that IS freaking hard too. Withdrawing and blaming is easy.

Right now, there are people digging through that place, pulling what used to be alive, vibrant people out. Check my privilege? What those people are doing can't be unseen, can't be unlived. And you tell me to check my privilege?! Who in whatever deities name you believe in (or not) privileged anyone to inflict that on anyone, let alone strangers. As grand ma used to say, That's gonna leave a mark... And You can't crowd fund that away. You can't make art and make it all nice. You can't be smug about how uplifted you are for the underdog to make it ok.

I'm pissed for the 40. I'm pissed because folks were so afraid of losing the spot, they couldn't or wouldn't stand up to the guy running it and they allowed it and seem, at least in these articles, to be sainting him for it and blaming everyone else.

Check yours people. I'm tired of it. As the new guerrilla BART signs say, get your shit together.

Posted by Bruce Ferrell on 12/04/2016 at 12:00 AM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

Right, I'm sure they are greedy, underground music shows in warehouses is where the money is at

Posted by Sean Miesen on 12/03/2016 at 11:28 PM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

Angela, being beaten down by white supremacy is not the same as blaming white people. It's pointing blame at white supremacy, there is a difference, white supremacy as I understand it is the faction/culture/history of specific groups and individuals who are white effecting policies, programs, laws, institutions, and social public opinion to favor only people who are also white while ignoring, brutalizing, or restricting those who are not white. For instance rudolf Julianis stop and frisk policy which targeted and profiled people of color as potential criminals simply because they were not white. That was a white supremacists action. No, white people all over are not to blame for that. However by being white I/we/you dont often see white privilege because i/we/you are not disenfranchised by it. Being disenfranchised because of skin color results in people of color having to seek sanctuary from such forces that in effect ignore, restrict, and brutalize people simply for being who they are.

Posted by Soen on 12/03/2016 at 11:06 PM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

"Bhatt and Butler wanted to emphasize in their interviews with the Express that the local underground music scene isnt to blame...They also said that these non-permitted residences that host underground shows are often the only safe place for marginalized people, those who find above-the-board and sanctioned venues unsafe or inhospitable. 'We need spaces that are open to folks who are beaten down and oppressed by living daily under patriarchy and white supremacy,' Butler said."

Posted by Angela Talbot on 12/03/2016 at 10:32 PM
Posted by Carrie Paulson on 12/03/2016 at 10:29 PM

Re: “'I Genuinely Thought I Was Going To Die': Reddit User Describes Terrifying Escape From Oakland Warehouse Fire

I think the reason artists in the Bay Area live in "death traps" such as this is because rents are unreasonably high. And the reason they perform and party in "death traps" such as this is because there aren't many economical venues to perform in (if you play underground music).

For some of us, these scenes, that support unusual music, art, and creativity, represent the epitome of why we want to live in the Bay Area.

This is a tragedy. But shutting down artist space is not going to solve the fundamental problem - high rent - limited support for the Arts. If we want to keep the Bay Area underground Arts scenes viable, we need to publicly support housing and performance space for musicians, artists, and other creative types to do their work.

Posted by Eric Glick Rieman on 12/03/2016 at 10:15 PM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

I'm trying figure where in this story did it particularly say it was white people fault?

Posted by DP 1 on 12/03/2016 at 10:07 PM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

Wrong Nick. The location was kept secret until the day of. From the Facebook page: SECRET EAST OAKLAND LOCATION
ANNOUNCED DAY OF SHOW.

Posted by Angela Talbot on 12/03/2016 at 9:36 PM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

Angela you are a disgusting hateful woman. You should be embarrassed of your shameful ignorance.

Posted by 510love on 12/03/2016 at 9:33 PM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

Interesting how white people are to blame for the actions of *greedy* morons who organize and promote 'underground' events in death traps. Some people are just incapable of accepting responsibility for their own stupidity.

Posted by Angela Talbot on 12/03/2016 at 9:22 PM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

Lynn... This party was not a secret. Its location has been public for weeks. Please consider that maybe you don't know the whole story before you lecture us about our own motivations.

Posted by Nick S. on 12/03/2016 at 9:16 PM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

Hold up. It's not just being forced into marginalized space because of the real estate sitch. These alt spaces have allure for underground parties and always have. They allow for alot of off-the-radar stuff to happen. Isn't that (partly) why the locations are not posted until the last minute??? Not like you are trying to rent "legit" space, like maybe the community room at the Y, right... or a bunch of others I could list, right? There are plenty of reasons you are hitting the back streets...

Posted by Lynn Rogers on 12/03/2016 at 8:59 PM

Re: “'I Genuinely Thought I Was Going To Die': Reddit User Describes Terrifying Escape From Oakland Warehouse Fire

I have been going to and even helped throw dozens of "warehouse" parties in SF & Oakland since the late 1980's. Underground culture has been my lifeblood longer than most of these fire victims have been alive. While I have no direct experience attending events at the Ghost Ship space in Fruitvale, I have observed it for years from the sidewalk and wondered what the hell was happening there. I writhe in pain at thought of the pointless deaths that occured, and the demise of so many young creative souls, yet harbor I harbor no illusions that those involved must escape the legal consequences they set themselves up for in enabling and enticing customers to this Fruitvale Death Trap. This was not just an accident of fate, but a preventable catastrophe. Our society, while ostensibly opposed to fascism, discrimination or unecessaary government intrusions, must recognize public safety as a primary and unavoidable reality when celebrating its freedoms and diversity. To invite your comrades to die enmass in order to pay your rent does not make you a cultural hero. I mourn for the victims and those that dod not consider what they were participating in, as this was not just an accident, but a conspiracy.

Posted by lil mike on 12/03/2016 at 8:36 PM

Re: “Artists Who Survived Oakland Warehouse Fire Discuss The Tragedy, Those Missing, Need for Safe Underground Spaces

This tragedy makes me ache for the artists in the Bay Area and in other cities around this country as this event will have broad repercussions. But in particular I worry about how young creative people are to survive in the Bay Area. How can they possibly pay the exorbitant rents for established and safe studios or gathering spaces? The Bay Area will become a duller and poorer place if the young musicians and artists cannot afford to live here.

Posted by Melissa Gwyn on 12/03/2016 at 8:02 PM

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