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Comment Archives: Stories: News & Opinion: Feature

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

Everybody is crying racism, but nobody knows the meaning of the word. First off, let's be honest. Yuvette Henderson was packing and tried to carjack three, yes three cars as she ran from Emeryville police, then pointed her piece at the cops. The issue here isn't police racism, it's why we live in society that promotes lawlessness, promotes violence, and doesn't give a helping hand to raise people out of lives of crime and violence.

Posted by Andrew Stevenson on 08/20/2016 at 8:47 AM

Re: “About the Data: What Our Reporters Analyzed to Learn About Officer-Involved Killings in Oakland

Hmmm... 4 shot Wednesday night on the 1100 block of Mandela Parkway. OPD didn't do it, so EBX doesn't care. Odd.

Posted by Bruce Ferrell on 08/19/2016 at 8:03 AM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

From John Iversen, Berkeley. Sadly the most ignored fact anywhere has been reported by the Guardian. Native people are killed at a rate 50% higher than blacks by police: 5.4 million to 3.6 million per capita. We are ignored, hidden away in rural areas with no TV cameras or even newspapers to report the murders. I am waiting on Color of Change or another POC group to do something for native people. NATIVE LIVES MATTER! LEONARD'S LIFE MATTERS! This is why I urge readers to support Nanci-Armstrong-Temple. Darryl Moore has become a tool of big $$ developers, abstained on a clemency for Peltier resolution, and has become the Mary Wainwright he once defeated. And don't get me started on his personal life! I am no angel and neither is he! John Iversen

Posted by John Tango Iversen on 08/18/2016 at 5:17 PM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

Mr. Davidzon that fact that you fear for your life every time you walk out your door is not a police issue it is a society issue. When society decides that enough is enough they will rise up against the criminal element and in conjunction with police efforts make neighborhoods safe again. To sit here and say that you would be ok with more police officer deaths so the criminal element will be better protected is ludicrous. When the police do something wrong they must be held accountable, no doubt, but when a citizen does something wrong, they need to be held accountable as well. The tax payers hired Police Officers to do a job they can't or won't do. When they do the job hired to do, which, at times can be violent, the tax payers don't want to support them, because it is not he politically correct thing to do. Mr. Davidzon, I am sorry that you feel threatened by police pressence, however, I am willing to bet that if you don't do anything wrong, you won't have to worry about being stopped.

Posted by Charles Johnson III on 08/18/2016 at 5:04 PM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

The NRA and gun manufactuers and their investors love it when the civilian and police body count rises. 2016 Orlando and Dallas massacres led to surges in gun stocks. A beautiful day for captialism can be a sad day for humanity. They hope we stay focused on blaming the police or blaming the poor and mentally ill, they need us to remain distraced from root cause as long as possible.

Posted by Vince Rubino on 08/18/2016 at 12:40 AM

Re: “About the Data: What Our Reporters Analyzed to Learn About Officer-Involved Killings in Oakland

Are you sure of your data from fatalencounters.com? That web site doesn't exist. fatalencounters.org does however.

I'm no apologist for OPD. Sloppy errors like this in your article hurt your credibility and believability.

Posted by Bruce Ferrell on 08/17/2016 at 10:55 PM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

The police are here to protect and serve. I won't waste words or my own time explaining why blaming the victim is wrong, or why I don't want to have to change my underwear if I am pulled over. What I will say, is that a lot of these "crimes" are not punishable by death. Yes, there are a lot of weapons on the streets. Yes, the OPOA has too much unbridled power. Yes, there are violent criminals on the streets RIGHT NOW. But the last time I checked, the is NOT Judge Dredd, and everybody does not need to die. Police trust is at an all time low. In part because they won't admit when they see their own colleagues behaving badly or even illegally. Accountability, and real consequences. A force the looks like it's community, and strong, consistent leadership, unswayed by political motivations are what's needed in Oakland.

Posted by Michael A. Munson on 08/17/2016 at 8:56 PM

Re: “About the Data: What Our Reporters Analyzed to Learn About Officer-Involved Killings in Oakland

@Matt Chambers - The crimes committed were not done on taxpayer dime, which is what makes police shootings radically different. The employer has the right and responsibility to say "you will do the job in this specific way, and you will accept this additional amount of risk to your life. Don't want the risk? Don't take the job and the paycheck".

Police officers are just hired blue-collar help. They can be replaced, fired and otherwise treated just like any other blue-collar employee doing any other job. This is America and we do capitalism here.

Posted by Vladislav Davidzon on 08/17/2016 at 8:45 PM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

Provocative headline with what intent? There have been 45+ victims of gun violence thus far this year in Oakland. What are you doing to disarm the perpetrators of those murders? Your article foments fear and hatred of the police, resulting in many more people naively arming themselves for the illusion of security that brings. And then, with a steel phallus, in the heat of a dispute, another life, or two or four are taken. #gunstheweaponofcowardsandbuffoons

Posted by Kathleen Lopes on 08/17/2016 at 2:46 PM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

Why would any sane taxpayer resist calls to push to get more service out of our cops or any public servant for the same money?

Do you offer to pay 3x more for your groceries or to your barber when they give you the bill?

Bewildering. Any and all pressure on our public servants is a great thing!

Cops are blue collar workers who are easily replaceable. There is zero reason why we cannot push them to deliver more and higher quality service even if it means a higher risk to their lives.

I am white and fairly wealthy. The fact that I fear for my life every time I get pulled over means something is very, very broken with our policing. Their fear of their own shadows combined with absurd union protection is absurd. The fact that they are failing to actually deliver safety at the same time and actually suppress crime is ridiculous.

Taxpayers deserve more and better service.

Posted by Vladislav Davidzon on 08/17/2016 at 2:42 PM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

African Americans shot and killed by police over the past 16.5 years average about 3.2 per year.
Average African American homicide victims per year over the past 16.5 years, over 75, (based on a average of over 100 total homicides per per year in Oakland over the past 17 years)
Of course some of those 3.2 officer involved shootings are entirely justified.
Or is someone suggesting that more than 1 each year of the 3.2 is completely unjustified?
So lets see... maximum, 1 possible unjustified police shooting homicide per year of a black citizen.
Compared to the huge problem of 75 African American homicide victims year after year, business as usual, on the streets over the past decades.

Hmm... Where shall we focus our attention and extensive statistical analysis of the danger?

Posted by Dan de'Data on 08/17/2016 at 2:16 PM

Re: “About the Data: What Our Reporters Analyzed to Learn About Officer-Involved Killings in Oakland

Investigate why it is that the Oakland City Council won't get the money from Wells Fargo to end homelessness, poverty and unemployment in Oakland?
If the city didn't intend for Wells Fargo to fix the problems that predatory lending has created, then why did they take them to court in the first place??
For the answer to the question read my Facebook pages titled,
Real Estate Crisis or Government Sanctioned Racketeering?

Posted by Allen Sanford on 08/17/2016 at 2:13 PM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

90 in 17 years? and they were all saints for sure. How about a report on how many blacks killed by other blacks?

Posted by Riley C on 08/17/2016 at 12:52 PM

Re: “About the Data: What Our Reporters Analyzed to Learn About Officer-Involved Killings in Oakland

First comment is that Mesa has about 25% of Oakland's violent crime. It's not a valid comp.

Posted by Ernest Montague on 08/17/2016 at 11:50 AM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

Mr Davidzon said: "The bottom line is that American police kill far more people than police in any other civilized nation. The use of force guidelines, according to Amnesty International, do not meet international norms and standards. Whats even worse is that while delivering this carnage, they are failing to reduce crime to rates on-par with other civilized nations."

That statement ignores the fact that, unlike any other country in the world, the USA has hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of millions of citizens. The threat level to police officers, and therefore the statistics on police killings -- justfied and unjustified -- cannot be compared with any other country.

Posted by Mansour Kilibria on 08/17/2016 at 10:45 AM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

@Mansour Kilibria - the issue you're missing is that police officers are hired help. The employers - ie the taxpayers - have every right to say "you must accept far higher risk of injury and death in exchange for this paycheck".

That is how capitalism works. Some jobs come with risks, and those risks are managed by the employers. In the case of police officers, there is no reason we cannot demand that they radically reduce the number of people they injure and kill, even if doing so implies that we will have more officer injuries and deaths. It is a job and job risks are dictated by employers.

The bottom line is that American police kill far more people than police in any other civilized nation. The use of force guidelines, according to Amnesty International, do not meet international norms and standards. Whats even worse is that while delivering this carnage, they are failing to reduce crime to rates on-par with other civilized nations.

Don't want to accept risk of injury or death? Cannot deliver lower crime? Don't take the job. Someone else will. This is America. We do capitalism here.

Posted by Vladislav Davidzon on 08/17/2016 at 10:41 AM

Re: “Law Enforcement Killed 90 Oakland Residents Since 2000, And 74 Percent Were Black

I saw this remark posted on r/oakland in response to this article. Not my words but they do cast a useful perspective on the article.

From /r/oakland:
Let's examine the incidents & people cited in the EBE article.


[Yuvette Henderson] (http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_27461977/oakland-woman-killed-by-emeryville-police-tried-carjack)

Police shot Ms. Henderson while she was aiming a loaded revolver at them, after she had attempted to *car jack 3 different cars.* Picture yourself as Ms. Henderson in this scene, whatever your age, race, or gender. How would you expect to be treated if you pointed a gun at a police officer? How else could this have played out? She could have dropped the weapon & surrendered.

--

[Richard Linyard] (http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-who-died-during-Oakland-police-chase-mourned-6398121.php)

He was asphyxiated. When he trapped *himself* in a narrow space between buildings while trying to escape from police. "Linyard was the only person in the car and allegedly fled on foot and into a nearby yard. Officers waited for backup to arrive before searching the neighborhood, Watson said... ...There was *no active pursuit, no fight, no use of force,*” Watson said. “We were in the process of conducting a search when the officers located this individual.”


How else could this have played out? He could have sat there in his car, hands on the steering wheel, like average citizens do, instead of trying to run.

--


[Demouria Hogg]
(http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_29822027/da-oakland-officer-cleared-fatal-shooting)


Having a weapon in plain view inside a car and reaching for it when a police officer taps at the window is not a good idea for a person of *any* description or race. If the fellow was groggy from sleep or drugs, that is unfortunate but also not something the police officer can know or account for in the moment. When someone raises a weapon there is no time for a "hey how ya doin" check-in or a therapy session. How else could this have played out? He could have put his hands up and waited for instructions. With a weapon in plain view, even if he'd put his hands up he still may have gotten shot due to the officer's nerves & bad judgment but chances would have been lower.


[Alan Blueford]
(https://oaklandnorth.net/2012/10/09/district-attorneys-report-officer-justified-in-alan-blueford-shooting/)


Shot while fleeing from police. After being seen directly involved in drug dealing. The details of this incident aren't as clear as in the previous examples but the interpretation "officer felt his life was threatened" seems much better-supported by the evidence than "racist cop kills punk from spite/anger". The youth had a weapon on him and attempted to flee after the police asked him to submit to a search. Pulled out said weapon (i.e. brandishing) while being chased. How else could this have played out? Mr. Blueford could've sat down on the curb, been searched, arrested for illegal firearms possession, booked, and processed.

----------


Without question, a certain number of suspect deaths at the hands of police are unjustified, and police depts. nationwide need to continue to revise & refine their use-of-force policies. But what articles like this EBE piece and thousands like it often ignore are the how the actions of the "victims" were instrumental in bringing about the killings. It's fair to put "victim" in quotes because the word connotes bad intention from one party toward another -- but so often when police blow somebody away, they are just doing their job because *the suspect or perp* raised the stakes to life-or-death by their own actions, forcing the police toward lethal self-defense or defense of the public at large.

-----

The EBE's closing quote for the 3-page article:


"Alan Blueford's mother says *its incumbent on police to change.* [Emphasis mine.] "Sadly it's been in our culture for a very long time," Jeralynn said. "The outrage of today is that it's still going on. Decades of killings. ... That's not the way it should be.


"It's up to them to change that. It's too late for Alan."


Really? It's up to the *police* to do the changing? Changing to what, tolerating young men (or anyone) possessing and carrying illegal firearms? Tolerating them ignoring police orders to stop and be searched with (in the Blueford and the Linyard cases ) *obvious* probable cause? Allowing them to run while brandishing a firearm?

Posted by Mansour Kilibria on 08/17/2016 at 10:12 AM

Re: “About the Data: What Our Reporters Analyzed to Learn About Officer-Involved Killings in Oakland

I get the point, but intentionally reporting in a vacuum (as is normal at EBX) is just wrong. There have been over 11,500,000 violent crimes in the United States since 2000, 250,000 of which were homicides. We live in an extremely violent society. The whole damn thing needs examination.

Posted by Matt_Chambers on 08/16/2016 at 10:07 PM

Re: “Hate Man

I'm one of the faces of the crowd that defied the 'authorities', clashed with police, stood up to the Natal Guard army and helped build that park in 1969. Just a few years later, I moved on and spent decades living elsewhere around the country, with occasional visits to Berkeley. I noted some of the changes in the park, and claims about it variously, like acetate overlays atop the original.

I wasn't aware of Hate until some years into my move returning me to East Bay and, off and on, Berkeley again. I only ventured 'Hate Camp' some time later and for some years, Hate and I maintained something of an arm's length, unspoken acknowledgement of one another with especially brief exchanges of pertinent pragmatic information/advisories once in awhile.

Two winters ago, both the University and City police Dept's launched a relatively strict 'enforcement' program, which was routinely conducted nightly. First UPD officers 'swept' the park (formally "closed" at 10pm) hassling and removing people from the park, either to the surrounding curbs or across the streets. Later, BPD officers showed up to drive them out of the neighborhood entirely. This continued for months - until crews showed up early one morn, setting barriers up with police in the background, and began cutting trees down, then shredding those into a 'sawdust/woodchip' which was strewn around.

Finally, there would be nights when only Hate and would be around there. But I had a vehicle. During that spell, I included his camp in my regular round and e increased our interacting quite a bit. However, I wasn't interested nor amenable to what I regarded as essentially a quirky self-styled 'etiquette' and I avoid or resist demands for social performance.

I, too, have a professional career background n print media, including newspapers (starting with the Berkeley Barb in '69), although my emphasis was the visual design/production. I've also authored magazine articles and was a blogger for a well-known 'social justice' website, etc. Hate and I have never discussed these things.

There is more to the guy than I usually see covered in articles like this. For instance, probably most people (including locals) aren't aware of how much picking up of messes and things caused by others that he's doing again and again. Then there are realms of what I may consider more esoteric or metaphysical, but I'll leave it to him to elucidate if and as he pleases. I can't credit that 'camp' as a 'peace keeping' function, since a probable majority of boisterous (or worse) confrontations take place there.

But, of course, he's become an iconic fixture. Personally, I have found that despite the reported refusal of 'handouts' he eagerly accepts certain proffered gifts, which include cups of black coffee, mayonnaise and baked sweets. And he reciprocates in his own ways.

Posted by Christoverre Kohler on 08/12/2016 at 10:43 AM

Re: “Hate Man

I don't miss you hate man. Fuck you, AND LEAVE ZIZI ALONE.LOVE BIRDMAN

Posted by birdmanofberkeley on 08/09/2016 at 6:11 PM

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