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I have a 3hrs and 12 mins. unscoped aircheck of KFJC from 6-24-72
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HI Russel - NJ bred & born here, and I beg to differ. Taylor Ham refers to the real deal, made by the Taylor Provisions Co, "Pork Roll" is the cheap imitation that lesser diners would serve.
On a recent visit to the homeland, I figured out the source of the difference: only Taylor Ham is subjected to a lactic acid fermentation (like many traditional sausages), while Pork Roll is just the chopped pig and spices.
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Ellen, no I am not committed to trying to deter you or other TNR practitioners. Given that you erroneously think that what you are doing is ‘balanced’ and that you ‘respect all life’ that would be a waste of my time.
But, as you can see, this is a public comment area underneath an article. I am presenting the realities of TNR for those who do not know about this practice or for those who are on the fence. Perhaps then others will investigate further and make an informed decision rather than just accept TNR at face value. You can read, comment, respond, or not do so. But, if I see something that warrants a response, I will respond.
You have absolutely no scientific/peer-reviewed proof that some ‘massive spay-neuter’ efforts have helped the ecosystem. That is patently false given that TNR does not reduce populations, well-fed cats continue to hunt, and felids are the definitive host for Toxoplasma gondii. Free-ranging cats, fixed or not, continue to be a leading cause of wildlife mortality through predation and disease transmission.
In fact, what you say is practically insulting to every scientist in related fields. So many TNR people act like they are ecologists. Ask ecologists what they think about TNR and free-ranging cats. They aren’t jumping for joy. The method is a scourge on the environment – right down to water quality.
You appear to be confused regarding the definition of euthanasia and why euthanasia is done. Euthanasia, by definition, is a good death. Euthanasia is done not only to end immediate suffering, but as a wildlife management tool and to manage shelter numbers. Killing is synonymous to violence. The deaths that these cats meet on the streets are often tragic. They are not typically dying of old age.
Like many TNR advocates, you did not respond by citing a paper to substantiate your claims, and you completely ignored the non-lethal suggestions I mentioned, probably because those methods actually require responsibility and oversight – not just re-dumping cats back to the streets and tossing food.
You view this as positive – others do not.
Eden is clearly committed to trying to deter those of us who have a balanced approach to life. We treat all animals with respect, whether wild or domestic.
He does not comprehend, or show an interest in understanding that massive spay/neuter and care of cats in our Oakland neighborhoods, has helped the neighborhoods, the ecosystem, and the cats. He keeps using the word "euthanize" instead of "kill" in the Trap/remove/euthanize. It is not "euthanasia" to remove healthy cats from their home and kill them, simply because some people want to hold them responsible for destruction of wildlife.
Eden, surely you know we love what we do, and are going to continue. Does it make you happy to continue to rant on here about everyone? I can't fathom going on a site that promotes killing feral cats, and doing more than saying my peace, and leaving. Actually, the fact that EBX is honoring a grass roots group doing something positive, makes it all the more sad, that you would take all this time to try to make people who are helping animals and their community, try to feel they are doing the wrong thing. Your negativity and inability to recognize what people are actually doing, is pretty sad, and is not helping anything.
Maggie, you mention feelings and beliefs and that is part of the problem. You do not seem to understand or appreciate the lack of scientific evidence for what you claim to be true. I am guessing you will not bother to consider these papers, but I will post them anyway. If TNR truly had a population impact, don’t you realize conservation groups would jump for joy? Fewer cats would mean less predation and less feces spreading Tg to wildlife, but that is NOT the result of TNR. Unless you fix a very high percentage of the cats within a geographical area (not a colony) EVERY year, you are wasting your time.
I would love to be a hindrance to TNR, but no Maggie, I am not. TNR is taking place thanks to huge funding sources like PetSmart Charities, Best Friends, HSUS, and others. All that money that could have been better spent.
Unless you took a census of those neighborhoods/zip codes before and after, you don’t know. Many TNR groups erroneously base ‘success’ on reduced intake at shelters and reduced rates of euthanasia. Neither is a sound indicator regarding population reduction. Of course there is less intake and euthanasia – the cats are being re-routed and re-dumped outside.
Lizzard, what you describe seems to be colonies - not ‘the population of cats in Oakland’ and there is a difference.
There is a cost – our natural resources, folks needing PEP due to rabies exposure, damaged property.
Actually, there are people who will trap for removal. The problem is that no-kill efforts have been systematically taking away the rights of landowners to do so. Ear-tipped cats are put right back. Shelters won’t accept cats. Sometimes people are threatened or harassed or their traps are stolen or damaged. People have a right to have unwanted domestic animals removed from their properties. But, that is increasingly harder and harder to do if they are cats.
Two papers in the Journal Zoonoses and Public Health:
Ellen, I did not say I represent the scientific community, but I base my views on science and substantiate what I say based on science. If ‘both sides’ can quote the studies, then by all means, please do so. Cite even one peer-reviewed paper in which TNR has reduced population growth within a municipality, county, or state. The point is – we shouldn’t be engaging and funding feel-good programs that actually come at the expense of public health. As much as environmental impact concerns me, this is first and foremost a public health issue. And, if you bother to read Roebling et al. 2013, the paper that has 5 authors from the CDC, you will learn that TNVR does not mitigate for rabies, but increases the risks. If you read Gerhold and Jessup, 2012 (both papers published in the Journal Zoonoses and Public Health), you will gain an understanding regarding the zoonotic disease ramifications of allowing cats to roam.
Nowhere did I say to hell regarding any other approach. TNR – definitely. But, not socialization, not containment or catios, and not TENVAC – which is a sanctuary set-up that has oversight and accountability (trap-evaluate-neuter-vaccinate-adopt-contain), so perhaps don’t put words in my mouth.
You are the pot calling the kettle black. My view is not myopic because I (unlike you) consider all aspects of this issue – not just the cats.
I didn’t say that the cats or the food is the reason at the colleges, but what I did describe happens in many, many places. Seriously, if you practice TNR, you darn well know that food attracts unwanted animals.
I don’t blame cats – I blame humans. Cats do what they do out of instinct.
I never said get rid of them all – my goodness – just how many times in one rant can you put words in my mouth? Spay-neuter all the owned pets you can, sure. But if you fix a feral, don’t re-dump outside. TNR is pretty much outdoor hoarding of cats. Areas are saturated.
Thank you EBX for sharing the quote by reader — wendyedel75f5 ! Thank you Wendy Edel for your darndest words. We appreciate EBX and our East Bay community - you are our inspiration! With humble and heartfelt gratitude, Lonnie Lee, Vessel Gallery
Excited to share the @bestfoodinoakland on Instagram!
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